Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Steve Newman's avatar

Arguably, in the long run, services like Waymo will not be competing with Uber and Lyft, they will be competing with private vehicle ownership. I was curious, so I asked OpenAI Deep Research for a report on usage levels of passenger vehicles overall (https://chatgpt.com/share/67eea043-9be4-800b-9a9a-2ef70ce9ef7e). The results indicate that passenger vehicles in the US are overprovisioned by roughly 10x vs. peak usage. Thus, if Waymo were provisioned for 1x peak usage, it would get roughly 10x better utilization than today's overall vehicle fleet.

I think I may be saying more or less the same thing as Ethan's sibling comment, just coming at it from a different direction – the fact that the status quo of private vehicle ownership is economically viable implies that the need to serve peak usage periods should not push costs out of bounds.

Of course, I'm glossing over all sorts of details here, but in the big picture it seems like it should be economically feasible to provision a Waymo-like service for peak usage, once the cost of the AV hardware comes down a bit? Though I could imagine that in the current early-adoption period the peak-to-mean ratio for Waymo is higher than for passenger vehicles overall (e.g. relatively high usage during events such as a big concert, relatively low usage during routine commute hours).

(Caveat, I made zero attempt to investigate the figures Deep Research produced, so they could be way off.)

Expand full comment
Peter Robinson's avatar

>>What do you do with redundant vehicles during the off-peak? Why, you have them cruising the streets, so that customers who would otherwise have to wait 8 minutes for a pickup instead wait 4. <<

I see no reason they need to be movibg around when unoccupied. They just need to be spread around in a smart way. Yes they need a parking place, but parking unoccupied driverless vehicles must be a much smaller problem than parking all the vehicles for the commuters into the city.

Let's imagine that the goal is five minute response time to a call. As a potential rider, 5 minutes seems quite reasonable to me. Now Waymo (or whoever) needs to have enough unoccupied vehicles that even at peak demand there is still at least one waiting vehicle within 5 minutes of every point in the city.

I can imagine Waymo buying a city lot that is vacant or covered with less valuable real estate. They excavate the lot down about 12 ft and build a basement with a ramp to the surface. Then pour a concrete roof over the basement and build a commercial establishment on top.

>>The number of cars that can park in a city lot depends on the lot's size, layout, and whether it's designed for efficient parking or includes landscaping and walkways. A standard acre can hold roughly 144 traditional parking spaces, but practical layouts typically accommodate 100-115 spaces. <<

Rounding down, lets say 100 spaces for driverless cars. Since the vehicles are interchangeable, they can be parked bumper to bumper. Everytime leave vehicle is activated, the other vehicles in the queue move up a space. So 100 vehicles would actually require much less than an acre.

Now Waymo needs one of these basements within a 5 minute drive of every point of the city.

>>During rush hour, city traffic speeds typically drop significantly, with average speeds ranging from around 10 to 20 miles per hour, depending on the city and time of day.<<

We definitely need to be conservative in this case, so 12 miles per hour. One mile every 5 minutes.

Now we need a grid of basement parking lots every mile in two dimensions. I think that works out to one parking lot per square mile. Imagine a city of 100 square miles. That's 100 parking lots and 10,000 vehicles to provide 5-minute response time.

Quite a bit of slack there, you can go from 100 parked vehicles to 1 parked vehicle and still provide 5-minute response time. The underground parking means zero usurpation of commercial/living/recreation space.

Sounds good to me.

Expand full comment
6 more comments...

No posts