A worthy and thoughtful commentary, with which I fully agree (as a transportation engineering consultant). It's hard to imagine an effective construction process, if it even launches. Of course, having studied this issue for fifty years, Transport Canada should have it all figured out by now. On the other hand, they are probably as shocked as anybody that the government has finally decided to move ahead with HSR.
I haven't looked yet, but am somewhat surprised that the proposed line does not extend past Toronto to Waterloo; there is great interest in tying "Silicon Valley North" more effectively to Pearson and Toronto in this manner. A future phase? Of course, serving Pearson with such an HSR line (which I studied) is a pretty big challenge that will take a lot of $ to create, but it's doable.
I will disagree on the Gordon Lightfoot front, though; there are some shockingly laborious rhymes in "Edmund Fitzgerald" that I can't get past, so "Canadian Railroad Trilogy" gets top billing from me (a practicing folk-rock musician).
Thanks, Steve! Given your background, your endorsement means a lot.
I can only presume there was no interest in going west from Toronto because that might seem a gift to Ontario rather than something that was in the national interest. If so, it's an indictment of what Canadians see as a 'national' concern.
As for Gordon Lightfoot, I celebrate his entire catalogue!
I’d like to know your example of “shockingly laborious rhymes” in “Edmund Fitzgerald.” I’m a musician a and sometime songwriter and hear nothing of the kind.
Granted, writing about a rusty, sinking iron ore carrier doesn't lend itself to flowery turns of phrase, but.... four references to November in the first six verses, including "the gales of November came early" followed a few verses later by "the gales of November came slashin" then later on "the gales of November remembered" seems a bit lazy to me. And pairing the poetic ring of "Superior sings in the rooms of her ice-water mansion" with the mundane Lake Michigan tourist brochure line "The islands and bays are for sportsmen" is pretty clunky. The "rhyme" of "weighed empty" and "came early" also seems like he could have spent a bit more time on. Then "As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most" is another line that sounds lazy. Anyway, a great song, but I do wish he had spent a bit more time and effort in writing it. Perhaps part of its million-selling charm is the plain-spoken "regular guy" lyrics taking the place of cliched rhymes or obvious highfalutin' poetic intent.
I'll add that the song just has an issue with sacrificing poetry for being a factual account of the event, which makes it kind of clumsy. In the category of songs about Great lakes merchant shipwrecks I think White Squall is better.
Great and enlightening column, thank you. Why does it leave Toronto and immediately leave for Peterborough, that centre of population? Is it to start building Peterborough into a population centre? Why is it leaving out the Toronto to Kingston corridor? No mention of how this will greatly increase our productivity when it only moves people. As a Westerner I question the expense of probably $80-$100B to solve transportation problems in a small area of Ontario and Quebec that will not likely have a great affect on the country as a whole. We have other large infrastructure projects and national building expenditures to make before this project. This speaks to a Canadian inferiority complex: “They have one so we should have one too.l
Both things can be true: (1) the way this project has been structured augurs cost and schedule overruns and possibly an expensive disaster, and (2) we should stop putting passenger rail onto freight lines and plan to use the best technology in the world on new tracks. In a smarter way.
In the 'thank heavens for small mercies' file at least it's not stopping in Smiths Falls [!] anymore (population less than ten thousand).
Are there issues with changing the HSR route have a longer arc from Toronto to Ottawa, so more track but going through less populated areas, less need to disrupt local residents, roads etc?
I presume this is is why the Toronto to Ottawa leg passes through Peterborough rather than Kingston, as one might have expected: it will be easier and cheaper to build a new ROW through that part of Ontario
Toronto hasn't even put a shovel in the ground for a north south subway line it had been planning for decades, and finally said it would start building six years ago. This HSR fantasy doesn't even promise that much, just 4 - 5 years of planning. It will never be built in our lifetimes, if ever. This isn't Europe. Their cities are compact, and have good intra city transit. Toronto? It would take me an hour to get to a station, plus another 30 minutes buffer time. I can just drive directly to my destination in Ottawa almost certainly in less time in aggregate. And if I'm really in a hurry, or want to go further, it's actually easier to get to an airport. I'll be in Ottawa or Montreal in a hour. Quebec City, 90 minutes.
I agree with most of what you said here, but Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald was not one of Gordon Lightfoot's best songs. I agree with all your praise of him WorEF just isn't his best work.
We have extensive (and already paid for) airports around the country. If the Feds want to improve intra-Canadian travel, they should drop the land rents they charge the airport operators.
Whg Peterborough? It lost its train station in the 60s and barely supports buses to Toronto. Folks scoot down 35/115 to the 407 and are in downtown Toronto in 75 minutes. Finally, it doesn't have a train station at all. It was torn down in the 70s.
I couldn’t agree more! Excellent points. This plan is sooo Canadian. Not merit based but inclusive. He’ll, import French or Japanese experts to plan and build it. As an aside, what’s the advantage of high speed rail if you have to stop every half hour? Make a straight line, Toronto to Montreal to Quebec City. Every one else can and should take VIA
Given the rail vs. car numbers on that corridor, it made me wonder how much rail exists in those cities now. A pretty persistent problem in the Bay Area is that it's kind of a hassle to take the BART somewhere if you just have to take a car on the other side. I debate this constantly if I visit friends in San Diego, it's way better to just fly but I still end up driving around the city because of limited public transportation there. Uber/Waymo change that equation a lot, but it seems like a country has to earn the right to do HSR by doing local public transportation well to begin with.
An element I didn't get into, but will explore in a future piece, is that the value of HSR versus other modes *depends on the rail station being downtown*. And it often is; certainly in Toronto or Montreal, one disembarks from one's train into the heart of the city, as well as into a subway station, so no private car is necessary.
It is not clear to me whether HSR will run directly to the Union Station / Gare Centrale of either Toronto or Montreal. It should, though it will have to run on low speeds on traditional trackage in the downtown cores, and then accelerate to high speed for the non-urban leg of the trip. If it does NOT do this, but instead goes to some dedicated station way out in the periphery—which is possible, we have no detail yet—then the value of the project plummets... if people need a car or a taxi trip on both ends, they will simply fly instead.
Absolutely correct. Our political class is pie in the sky out of touch. I’m a Canadian citizen who lives in Japan. Their trains are world class for all the reasons you have stated. We should poach their experts to build and organize it for us as our government is incapable of common sense in this regard.
The key to this current project award is to understand that the award is first of all only to identify the most suitable alignment and provide a cost estimate based on very preliminary design. This itself will take 3 to 5 years. It is only after this that the Government will make a call on whether to actually proceed with the project.
One thing that the US has done well is its interstate highway system. Imagine if Canada had one (ONE!!!) continuous coast to coast, divided muti-lane highway.
Good one. How about upgrading the TCH to freeway standards from coast to coast (to coast)? The ‘Murricans have an Interstate Highway system: we have one Tran Canada Highway that still has parts that are two lane, and as for driving to the northern two thirds of the country that suddenly our Laurentian elite has discovered exists, good luck with that.
A worthy and thoughtful commentary, with which I fully agree (as a transportation engineering consultant). It's hard to imagine an effective construction process, if it even launches. Of course, having studied this issue for fifty years, Transport Canada should have it all figured out by now. On the other hand, they are probably as shocked as anybody that the government has finally decided to move ahead with HSR.
I haven't looked yet, but am somewhat surprised that the proposed line does not extend past Toronto to Waterloo; there is great interest in tying "Silicon Valley North" more effectively to Pearson and Toronto in this manner. A future phase? Of course, serving Pearson with such an HSR line (which I studied) is a pretty big challenge that will take a lot of $ to create, but it's doable.
I will disagree on the Gordon Lightfoot front, though; there are some shockingly laborious rhymes in "Edmund Fitzgerald" that I can't get past, so "Canadian Railroad Trilogy" gets top billing from me (a practicing folk-rock musician).
Thanks, Steve! Given your background, your endorsement means a lot.
I can only presume there was no interest in going west from Toronto because that might seem a gift to Ontario rather than something that was in the national interest. If so, it's an indictment of what Canadians see as a 'national' concern.
As for Gordon Lightfoot, I celebrate his entire catalogue!
I’d like to know your example of “shockingly laborious rhymes” in “Edmund Fitzgerald.” I’m a musician a and sometime songwriter and hear nothing of the kind.
Granted, writing about a rusty, sinking iron ore carrier doesn't lend itself to flowery turns of phrase, but.... four references to November in the first six verses, including "the gales of November came early" followed a few verses later by "the gales of November came slashin" then later on "the gales of November remembered" seems a bit lazy to me. And pairing the poetic ring of "Superior sings in the rooms of her ice-water mansion" with the mundane Lake Michigan tourist brochure line "The islands and bays are for sportsmen" is pretty clunky. The "rhyme" of "weighed empty" and "came early" also seems like he could have spent a bit more time on. Then "As the big freighters go, it was bigger than most" is another line that sounds lazy. Anyway, a great song, but I do wish he had spent a bit more time and effort in writing it. Perhaps part of its million-selling charm is the plain-spoken "regular guy" lyrics taking the place of cliched rhymes or obvious highfalutin' poetic intent.
‘Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?’ Now there’s a lyric!
I'll add that the song just has an issue with sacrificing poetry for being a factual account of the event, which makes it kind of clumsy. In the category of songs about Great lakes merchant shipwrecks I think White Squall is better.
It’s a motif!
Great and enlightening column, thank you. Why does it leave Toronto and immediately leave for Peterborough, that centre of population? Is it to start building Peterborough into a population centre? Why is it leaving out the Toronto to Kingston corridor? No mention of how this will greatly increase our productivity when it only moves people. As a Westerner I question the expense of probably $80-$100B to solve transportation problems in a small area of Ontario and Quebec that will not likely have a great affect on the country as a whole. We have other large infrastructure projects and national building expenditures to make before this project. This speaks to a Canadian inferiority complex: “They have one so we should have one too.l
Both things can be true: (1) the way this project has been structured augurs cost and schedule overruns and possibly an expensive disaster, and (2) we should stop putting passenger rail onto freight lines and plan to use the best technology in the world on new tracks. In a smarter way.
In the 'thank heavens for small mercies' file at least it's not stopping in Smiths Falls [!] anymore (population less than ten thousand).
Are there issues with changing the HSR route have a longer arc from Toronto to Ottawa, so more track but going through less populated areas, less need to disrupt local residents, roads etc?
I presume this is is why the Toronto to Ottawa leg passes through Peterborough rather than Kingston, as one might have expected: it will be easier and cheaper to build a new ROW through that part of Ontario
Toronto hasn't even put a shovel in the ground for a north south subway line it had been planning for decades, and finally said it would start building six years ago. This HSR fantasy doesn't even promise that much, just 4 - 5 years of planning. It will never be built in our lifetimes, if ever. This isn't Europe. Their cities are compact, and have good intra city transit. Toronto? It would take me an hour to get to a station, plus another 30 minutes buffer time. I can just drive directly to my destination in Ottawa almost certainly in less time in aggregate. And if I'm really in a hurry, or want to go further, it's actually easier to get to an airport. I'll be in Ottawa or Montreal in a hour. Quebec City, 90 minutes.
I agree with most of what you said here, but Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald was not one of Gordon Lightfoot's best songs. I agree with all your praise of him WorEF just isn't his best work.
I celebrate his entire catalogue!
We have extensive (and already paid for) airports around the country. If the Feds want to improve intra-Canadian travel, they should drop the land rents they charge the airport operators.
Whg Peterborough? It lost its train station in the 60s and barely supports buses to Toronto. Folks scoot down 35/115 to the 407 and are in downtown Toronto in 75 minutes. Finally, it doesn't have a train station at all. It was torn down in the 70s.
They must have a reliably Liberal MP.
I couldn’t agree more! Excellent points. This plan is sooo Canadian. Not merit based but inclusive. He’ll, import French or Japanese experts to plan and build it. As an aside, what’s the advantage of high speed rail if you have to stop every half hour? Make a straight line, Toronto to Montreal to Quebec City. Every one else can and should take VIA
Why Quebec City?
Given the rail vs. car numbers on that corridor, it made me wonder how much rail exists in those cities now. A pretty persistent problem in the Bay Area is that it's kind of a hassle to take the BART somewhere if you just have to take a car on the other side. I debate this constantly if I visit friends in San Diego, it's way better to just fly but I still end up driving around the city because of limited public transportation there. Uber/Waymo change that equation a lot, but it seems like a country has to earn the right to do HSR by doing local public transportation well to begin with.
An element I didn't get into, but will explore in a future piece, is that the value of HSR versus other modes *depends on the rail station being downtown*. And it often is; certainly in Toronto or Montreal, one disembarks from one's train into the heart of the city, as well as into a subway station, so no private car is necessary.
It is not clear to me whether HSR will run directly to the Union Station / Gare Centrale of either Toronto or Montreal. It should, though it will have to run on low speeds on traditional trackage in the downtown cores, and then accelerate to high speed for the non-urban leg of the trip. If it does NOT do this, but instead goes to some dedicated station way out in the periphery—which is possible, we have no detail yet—then the value of the project plummets... if people need a car or a taxi trip on both ends, they will simply fly instead.
Absolutely correct. Our political class is pie in the sky out of touch. I’m a Canadian citizen who lives in Japan. Their trains are world class for all the reasons you have stated. We should poach their experts to build and organize it for us as our government is incapable of common sense in this regard.
The key to this current project award is to understand that the award is first of all only to identify the most suitable alignment and provide a cost estimate based on very preliminary design. This itself will take 3 to 5 years. It is only after this that the Government will make a call on whether to actually proceed with the project.
One thing that the US has done well is its interstate highway system. Imagine if Canada had one (ONE!!!) continuous coast to coast, divided muti-lane highway.
This will never be built
Never happen. Though lots of connected companies will do just fine.
Fantastic Article!
Now Andrew I would like you to think of the New Rem Line in Montreal.
Original cost was 7 Billion dollars to build,final cost 9.4 Billion dollars.
Oh and its always on the fritz.
Sounds like pre election BS and pre project consultants making a tidy Paycheque?
Good one. How about upgrading the TCH to freeway standards from coast to coast (to coast)? The ‘Murricans have an Interstate Highway system: we have one Tran Canada Highway that still has parts that are two lane, and as for driving to the northern two thirds of the country that suddenly our Laurentian elite has discovered exists, good luck with that.